Correction: “To secure these rights governments are instituted amongst men.” appears in the Declaration of Independence.

Myrhaf says “I hope you have more luck persuading your relatives than I do. Mine all look at me when I speak my ideas like I just fell from the moon.” I get this reaction if I speak of rights to almost anyone.

L-C:
Thanks for sub dividing the forces the way you did. That helps my thinking when someone says “What if…? I do think that 3 and 4 are instances of and can be subsumed under retaliatory force. I think #4 is a good example of the principle that retaliatory force can and should be used to remove the threat to one’s rights by initiatory force. Thus pre-emptive force would be a valid use of retaliatory force to protect rights. It goes without saying of course that there needs to be objective evidence of the threat.

As for force, I identified four types of them back at the forum:

1. Initiatory, the illegitimate form of force. The defining factor in crime.

2. Retaliatory, as used by the government (courts when legal, police when legal/tactical).

3. Defensive, much like retaliatory but only in the immediacy of being the victim of 1. Individuals can use this type of force.

4. Pre-emptive, when the case is made to stop i
imminent force of type 1 before it is/can be employed. The context here is police/military use, not shooting a criminal before he stabs you. That would simply be defensive. 4 refers to such things as busting a planned robbery or nuking the big I before they do it first.

I hope you have more luck persuading your relatives than I do. Mine all look at me when I speak my ideas like I just fell from the moon.