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	<title>Comments on: A Nice Distinction</title>
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	<description>Our mission is to combat the unreason and selflessness that are sweeping our culture from the nihilist left to the religious right, and to sound a new ideal of capitalism and individual rights in American politics.</description>
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		<title>By: Jim May</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim May</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Fat Charlie: you are confusing altruism with charity.  

Altruism is not about helping others; it is about serving others **at one&#039;s own expense**.  Have you ever heard it said that &quot;it should hurt when you give&quot;?  

Have you ever read the story of the widow&#039;s mite in the Bible, which is the clearest pre-Kantian illustration of what altruism really means: that the pain to the giver is the measure of morality, more so than the benefit to the recipient?

Are you familiar with Auguste Comte, the man who coined the term?  He wrote:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;[The] social point of view cannot tolerate the notion of rights, for such notion rests on individualism. We are born under a load of obligations of every kind, to our predecessors, to our successors, to our contemporaries.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  (from his &quot;Catechisme Positiviste&quot;, via Wikipedia)

The idea that you &quot;have to do it&quot; is known as &lt;i&gt;duty&lt;/i&gt;, and duty to others is the essence and meaning of altruism.  It is a very short step from there to &quot;the gummint making you do it&quot; -- as Comte notes, altruism is in opposition to &quot;the notion of rights&quot; that originates in individualism.

So I suggest you revisit your idea of what you mean by &quot;altruism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fat Charlie: you are confusing altruism with charity.  </p>
<p>Altruism is not about helping others; it is about serving others **at one&#8217;s own expense**.  Have you ever heard it said that &#8220;it should hurt when you give&#8221;?  </p>
<p>Have you ever read the story of the widow&#8217;s mite in the Bible, which is the clearest pre-Kantian illustration of what altruism really means: that the pain to the giver is the measure of morality, more so than the benefit to the recipient?</p>
<p>Are you familiar with Auguste Comte, the man who coined the term?  He wrote:  <i>&#8220;[The] social point of view cannot tolerate the notion of rights, for such notion rests on individualism. We are born under a load of obligations of every kind, to our predecessors, to our successors, to our contemporaries.&#8221;</i>  (from his &#8220;Catechisme Positiviste&#8221;, via Wikipedia)</p>
<p>The idea that you &#8220;have to do it&#8221; is known as <i>duty</i>, and duty to others is the essence and meaning of altruism.  It is a very short step from there to &#8220;the gummint making you do it&#8221; &#8212; as Comte notes, altruism is in opposition to &#8220;the notion of rights&#8221; that originates in individualism.</p>
<p>So I suggest you revisit your idea of what you mean by &#8220;altruism&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fat Charlie the Archangel</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Fat Charlie the Archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Two points:

1) It&#039;s entirely possible that the teacher was joking - in just the same way, whenever I meet an Ohio State fan, I say &quot;Oh, but you seem like such a nice person!&quot; - which is merely my taking the opportunity to make a jab at Ohio-Statism, not any real reflection of what I think about folks from Columbus.

That being said, I was right with you up until your paragraph against altruism...

2) It&#039;s not &quot;altrusim&quot; if the gummint is making you do it. I strongly believe in altruism, but for me to impose that belief on somebody else isn&#039;t altruistic in any sense - for me, or for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points:</p>
<p>1) It&#8217;s entirely possible that the teacher was joking &#8211; in just the same way, whenever I meet an Ohio State fan, I say &#8220;Oh, but you seem like such a nice person!&#8221; &#8211; which is merely my taking the opportunity to make a jab at Ohio-Statism, not any real reflection of what I think about folks from Columbus.</p>
<p>That being said, I was right with you up until your paragraph against altruism&#8230;</p>
<p>2) It&#8217;s not &#8220;altrusim&#8221; if the gummint is making you do it. I strongly believe in altruism, but for me to impose that belief on somebody else isn&#8217;t altruistic in any sense &#8211; for me, or for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>I understand the primacy of the virtue of selfishness, but I think that by focusing so heavily on this, Objectivists have allowed others to claim the title of benevolence.  As you cleanly point out, the root of true benevolence is selfishness, and altruism is the root of human sacrifice. It&#039;s time to reclaim the title. Thanks for elaborating on the connection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the primacy of the virtue of selfishness, but I think that by focusing so heavily on this, Objectivists have allowed others to claim the title of benevolence.  As you cleanly point out, the root of true benevolence is selfishness, and altruism is the root of human sacrifice. It&#8217;s time to reclaim the title. Thanks for elaborating on the connection.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Mulkerin</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Mulkerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>&quot;Uninvited Guest&quot;:  Your statement was no less speculative.  You just took two correlations and stuck them together without proof.  

Myrhaf explanation makes more sense to me because it goes along with basic economics.  Your suggested explanation might indeed be a factor, but the cause-effect relationship is not obvious to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Uninvited Guest&#8221;:  Your statement was no less speculative.  You just took two correlations and stuck them together without proof.  </p>
<p>Myrhaf explanation makes more sense to me because it goes along with basic economics.  Your suggested explanation might indeed be a factor, but the cause-effect relationship is not obvious to me.</p>
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		<title>By: RWW</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>RWW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;...this renders politics as idiocy.&lt;/I&gt;

But politics &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; idiocy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;this renders politics as idiocy.</i></p>
<p>But politics <b>is</b> idiocy.</p>
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		<title>By: Uninvited Guest</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Uninvited Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>&quot;There have been studies showing that charitable giving is highest in &quot;red&quot; states and lowest in &quot;blue&quot; states. Why is this? &quot;

I see you answered this question, but was your answer based on anything but pure speculation?

There is some data to be found on charitable giving, and the most interesting is that people with lower incomes donate more than people with higher incomes, in fact, as a portion of income, poor people give 30% more than rich people, even in blue states. 

Now, has it occurred to you that blue states are richer than red states?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There have been studies showing that charitable giving is highest in &#8220;red&#8221; states and lowest in &#8220;blue&#8221; states. Why is this? &#8221;</p>
<p>I see you answered this question, but was your answer based on anything but pure speculation?</p>
<p>There is some data to be found on charitable giving, and the most interesting is that people with lower incomes donate more than people with higher incomes, in fact, as a portion of income, poor people give 30% more than rich people, even in blue states. </p>
<p>Now, has it occurred to you that blue states are richer than red states?</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>i live in a blue state, and i&#039;d say that red states are more charitable simply because the blue states take all that money away from you with oppressive taxes, and don&#039;t leave you with any to give away. &quot;progressive taxation&quot; raises prices as well as cutting into your paycheck. that those taxes are partially supporting welfare programs -- the involuntary charity oxymoron -- is in a complete blind spot.

which actually makes social interaction between &quot;classes&quot; even worse. the rich don&#039;t have a clue where that money is going, and the poor have no idea where it comes from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i live in a blue state, and i&#8217;d say that red states are more charitable simply because the blue states take all that money away from you with oppressive taxes, and don&#8217;t leave you with any to give away. &#8220;progressive taxation&#8221; raises prices as well as cutting into your paycheck. that those taxes are partially supporting welfare programs &#8212; the involuntary charity oxymoron &#8212; is in a complete blind spot.</p>
<p>which actually makes social interaction between &#8220;classes&#8221; even worse. the rich don&#8217;t have a clue where that money is going, and the poor have no idea where it comes from.</p>
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		<title>By: Two--Four</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Two--Four</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/a-nice-distinction/#comment-19</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the complete separation of state and economics. Her reaction? &#8216;But you’re such a nice guy!&#8217;&#8221;Myrhaf posts on the Eloi among us and the corrosions of their insipid little toy ethics. He&#8217;s right. Read [...]</p>
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