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	<title>Comments on: God Or State?</title>
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	<description>Our mission is to combat the unreason and selflessness that are sweeping our culture from the nihilist left to the religious right, and to sound a new ideal of capitalism and individual rights in American politics.</description>
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		<title>By: Khartoum</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-1207</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartoum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-1207</guid>
		<description>Great post. I&#039;ve heard somebody comment on this blog that you guys have put together a set of awesome writers in one blog. I couldn&#039;t agree more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I&#8217;ve heard somebody comment on this blog that you guys have put together a set of awesome writers in one blog. I couldn&#8217;t agree more.</p>
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		<title>By: John Sabotta</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>John Sabotta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-210</guid>
		<description>Remember, remember
The Fifth of November
Objectivist treason and plot
I see no reason
That Objectivist treason
Should ever be forgot

(This applies more to the presidential election before last, but your rotten bigotry makes it applicable all the same. The Objectivists deserve everything they&#039;ll get as reward for their betrayal of liberty, and they&#039;ll get a lot. In the meantime you can write articles about how libertarian are all immoral child molesters, or whatever lie strikes you as plausible.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, remember<br />
The Fifth of November<br />
Objectivist treason and plot<br />
I see no reason<br />
That Objectivist treason<br />
Should ever be forgot</p>
<p>(This applies more to the presidential election before last, but your rotten bigotry makes it applicable all the same. The Objectivists deserve everything they&#8217;ll get as reward for their betrayal of liberty, and they&#8217;ll get a lot. In the meantime you can write articles about how libertarian are all immoral child molesters, or whatever lie strikes you as plausible.)</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Hsieh</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Hsieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Dr. Peikoff didn&#039;t change his mind.  He applied his principles to a different set of concretes, namely the candidates in the 2008 election as opposed to the candidates in the 2004 and 2006 elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Peikoff didn&#8217;t change his mind.  He applied his principles to a different set of concretes, namely the candidates in the 2008 election as opposed to the candidates in the 2004 and 2006 elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Per-Olof Samuelsson</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Per-Olof Samuelsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>By pure coincidence, just after I wrote the above I watched Craig Biddle&#039;s lecture &quot;McBama vs. America&quot;, available at the ARI:s web site. There, he explains quite convincingly that the great danger with Obama is precisely that he combines socialism with a profoundly religious outlook.

I guess many of you must have seen this lecture already, but if not, I recommend it highly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By pure coincidence, just after I wrote the above I watched Craig Biddle&#8217;s lecture &#8220;McBama vs. America&#8221;, available at the ARI:s web site. There, he explains quite convincingly that the great danger with Obama is precisely that he combines socialism with a profoundly religious outlook.</p>
<p>I guess many of you must have seen this lecture already, but if not, I recommend it highly.</p>
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		<title>By: Per-Olof Samuelsson</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Per-Olof Samuelsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>In his 2006 statement, Leonard Peikoff wrote:

&quot;In my judgment, anyone who votes Republican or abstains from voting in this election has no understanding of the practical role of philosophy in man&#039;s actual life—which means that he does not understand the philosophy of Objectivism, except perhaps as a rationalistic system detached from the world. &quot;

But then, if he abstained from voting for either candidate this year, he must have changed his mind, mustn&#039;t he?

(Btw, I never liked his original statement. I thought it was &quot;rationalistic&quot; and &quot;detached from the world&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his 2006 statement, Leonard Peikoff wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;In my judgment, anyone who votes Republican or abstains from voting in this election has no understanding of the practical role of philosophy in man&#8217;s actual life—which means that he does not understand the philosophy of Objectivism, except perhaps as a rationalistic system detached from the world. &#8221;</p>
<p>But then, if he abstained from voting for either candidate this year, he must have changed his mind, mustn&#8217;t he?</p>
<p>(Btw, I never liked his original statement. I thought it was &#8220;rationalistic&#8221; and &#8220;detached from the world&#8221;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Hsieh</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Hsieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the tech support, Bill!  It&#039;s a strange feeling to be overcome with the desire to throttle a computer program.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the tech support, Bill!  It&#8217;s a strange feeling to be overcome with the desire to throttle a computer program.  <img src='http://www.newclarion.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Diana Hsieh</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Hsieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-147</guid>
		<description>First, congrats on the new blog.  Second, a bit of a rant:

If Tracinski thinks that a single election -- particularly one in which the Democrats seriously courted evangelical voters -- could refute Dr. Peikoff&#039;s argument based on his DIM Hypothesis, then he&#039;s even more hopelessly mired in short-term analysis than I thought.

Of course it&#039;s not an either-or choice between God and State.  That shows such a serious misunderstanding of Dr. Peikoff&#039;s claims and arguments that I just can&#039;t even wrap my head around what Tracinski thinks the refutation amounts to.  Does he think that Dr. Peikoff&#039;s view is that the state would wither away as people turned to the church?  That people would embrace God
and individual rights?  In fact, it&#039;s going to be faith *and* force.

The real question is whether secular socialism is still an active intellectual force driving the culture -- as it was in the early part of the 20th century -- or whether religion is taking over that role and doing so for the long haul.  Notably, if religion does become the dominant
philosophic force in the culture, we can and ought to expect it to embrace and incorporate other vicious modern ideologies -- most notably welfare statism, egalitarianism, and environmentalism.  All of those views can be supported by Christian scripture -- and as Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate argued this summer, they will need Christianity to survive.

Obama is part of the movement to reinvigorate socialism under the banner of religion, I think.  And that&#039;s part of what makes him so dangerous qua socialist.  In response, the GOP is likely to run a statist evangelical nut like Huckabee or Palin in 2012.  (I just don&#039;t see any hope for a fiscal conservative indifferent to &quot;life&quot; issues, not when the party&#039;s intellectual leaders are insisting that compromise is fine on any issue but abortion.)

Soon, we&#039;re darn likely to have two thoroughly religious political parties, with just minor variations in their increasingly statist policies.  The GOP is already thoroughly religious -- and they&#039;ve abandoned all concerned for rights in recent years.  The Dems haven&#039;t understood or advocated rights in ages, and now they&#039;re embracing religion as the basis of their egalitarian
ideals.

That&#039;s the very ugly future about which Dr. Peikoff (along with Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate) have warned us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, congrats on the new blog.  Second, a bit of a rant:</p>
<p>If Tracinski thinks that a single election &#8212; particularly one in which the Democrats seriously courted evangelical voters &#8212; could refute Dr. Peikoff&#8217;s argument based on his DIM Hypothesis, then he&#8217;s even more hopelessly mired in short-term analysis than I thought.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s not an either-or choice between God and State.  That shows such a serious misunderstanding of Dr. Peikoff&#8217;s claims and arguments that I just can&#8217;t even wrap my head around what Tracinski thinks the refutation amounts to.  Does he think that Dr. Peikoff&#8217;s view is that the state would wither away as people turned to the church?  That people would embrace God<br />
and individual rights?  In fact, it&#8217;s going to be faith *and* force.</p>
<p>The real question is whether secular socialism is still an active intellectual force driving the culture &#8212; as it was in the early part of the 20th century &#8212; or whether religion is taking over that role and doing so for the long haul.  Notably, if religion does become the dominant<br />
philosophic force in the culture, we can and ought to expect it to embrace and incorporate other vicious modern ideologies &#8212; most notably welfare statism, egalitarianism, and environmentalism.  All of those views can be supported by Christian scripture &#8212; and as Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate argued this summer, they will need Christianity to survive.</p>
<p>Obama is part of the movement to reinvigorate socialism under the banner of religion, I think.  And that&#8217;s part of what makes him so dangerous qua socialist.  In response, the GOP is likely to run a statist evangelical nut like Huckabee or Palin in 2012.  (I just don&#8217;t see any hope for a fiscal conservative indifferent to &#8220;life&#8221; issues, not when the party&#8217;s intellectual leaders are insisting that compromise is fine on any issue but abortion.)</p>
<p>Soon, we&#8217;re darn likely to have two thoroughly religious political parties, with just minor variations in their increasingly statist policies.  The GOP is already thoroughly religious &#8212; and they&#8217;ve abandoned all concerned for rights in recent years.  The Dems haven&#8217;t understood or advocated rights in ages, and now they&#8217;re embracing religion as the basis of their egalitarian<br />
ideals.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the very ugly future about which Dr. Peikoff (along with Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate) have warned us.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Hsieh</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Hsieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Augh!  I just spend more time than I ought to have writing up a fairly lengthy comment, and I can&#039;t post it because it seems &quot;spammy&quot; to some dumb program.  What the heck does that mean?  What&#039;s the criteria?  It can&#039;t be anything legit: my post was just a long argument without anything that might raise a reasonable red flag like links or profanity.

Seriously, that&#039;s really insanely annoying, as I just wasted a whole lot of time for absolutely no purpose whatsoever.  I&#039;m saving the comment, in the hopes that I can post it at some point.  (Let me know when you fix the program.)  In the meantime, I won&#039;t be writing any more comments for this blog, as I don&#039;t want to run the risk of being &quot;spammy&quot; again.  That seems like a shame to me, as I generally like what you&#039;re posting so far and I&#039;d like to comment on occasion.

&lt;em&gt;[Ed: I&#039;ve posted your comment after disabling the existing spam protection. I reviewed its code and it was bizarrely aggressive. Previous versions of the system took a more modest approach to spam protection and the release notes didn&#039;t identify the change.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Augh!  I just spend more time than I ought to have writing up a fairly lengthy comment, and I can&#8217;t post it because it seems &#8220;spammy&#8221; to some dumb program.  What the heck does that mean?  What&#8217;s the criteria?  It can&#8217;t be anything legit: my post was just a long argument without anything that might raise a reasonable red flag like links or profanity.</p>
<p>Seriously, that&#8217;s really insanely annoying, as I just wasted a whole lot of time for absolutely no purpose whatsoever.  I&#8217;m saving the comment, in the hopes that I can post it at some point.  (Let me know when you fix the program.)  In the meantime, I won&#8217;t be writing any more comments for this blog, as I don&#8217;t want to run the risk of being &#8220;spammy&#8221; again.  That seems like a shame to me, as I generally like what you&#8217;re posting so far and I&#8217;d like to comment on occasion.</p>
<p><em>[Ed: I've posted your comment after disabling the existing spam protection. I reviewed its code and it was bizarrely aggressive. Previous versions of the system took a more modest approach to spam protection and the release notes didn't identify the change.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: L-C</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>L-C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-135</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t but agree with your conclusion, in any case. Either one of these maladies is enough to topple a society in time. We have both, and they were never that different from each other to begin with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t but agree with your conclusion, in any case. Either one of these maladies is enough to topple a society in time. We have both, and they were never that different from each other to begin with.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrhaf</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrhaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-133</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think he has changed his mind. He abstained from voting for McCain or Obama because they were both terrible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think he has changed his mind. He abstained from voting for McCain or Obama because they were both terrible.</p>
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		<title>By: L-C</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>L-C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Has Peikoff made any recent statements about this? I remember his Kerry &quot;endorsement&quot; and the statement above. Has he changed his mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Peikoff made any recent statements about this? I remember his Kerry &#8220;endorsement&#8221; and the statement above. Has he changed his mind?</p>
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		<title>By: Myrhaf</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrhaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-130</guid>
		<description>Burgess, Inspector, I think we&#039;re about to see the worst economy since the &#039;70s.

Andrew, I hope we get it fixed, as I value your comments highly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burgess, Inspector, I think we&#8217;re about to see the worst economy since the &#8217;70s.</p>
<p>Andrew, I hope we get it fixed, as I value your comments highly.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Dalton</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Dalton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>You guys need to fix your spam filter.  My comment keeps getting rejected as &quot;spam&quot; for some unknown reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys need to fix your spam filter.  My comment keeps getting rejected as &#8220;spam&#8221; for some unknown reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Inspector</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Inspector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-128</guid>
		<description>&quot;We may be in only the beginning stages of a very bad economy.&quot;

I agree. Not only do we have yet to feel the full effect of the current economic woes, but also reactions to them are going to make things much worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We may be in only the beginning stages of a very bad economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree. Not only do we have yet to feel the full effect of the current economic woes, but also reactions to them are going to make things much worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Burgess Laughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgess Laughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newclarion.com/2008/12/god-or-state/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>The Dec. 14, 2008 New York Times carried an article titled: &quot;Bad Times Draw Bigger Crowds to Churches.&quot; It suggests that attendance has increased on the short term, at some churches. 

We may be in only the beginning stages of a very bad economy. This is a long-term trend to watch for, if it is indeed a trend and if attendance is an appropriate indicator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dec. 14, 2008 New York Times carried an article titled: &#8220;Bad Times Draw Bigger Crowds to Churches.&#8221; It suggests that attendance has increased on the short term, at some churches. </p>
<p>We may be in only the beginning stages of a very bad economy. This is a long-term trend to watch for, if it is indeed a trend and if attendance is an appropriate indicator.</p>
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