Comments on: The Start of Something Big http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/ Our mission is to combat the unreason and selflessness that are sweeping our culture from the nihilist left to the religious right, and to sound a new ideal of capitalism and individual rights in American politics. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 03:04:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike N http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5595 Mike N Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:45:25 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5595 Mike: I would respectfully urge you not to use "Tea bag" when referring to the tea party movement. Tea bag refers to a disgusting sexual activity. I 'm sure you don't want to be associated with the likes of Keith Olberman who deliberately used that term on TV to refer to the protesters. Mike:
I would respectfully urge you not to use “Tea bag” when referring to the tea party movement. Tea bag refers to a disgusting sexual activity. I ‘m sure you don’t want to be associated with the likes of Keith Olberman who deliberately used that term on TV to refer to the protesters.

]]> By: Embedded I http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5572 Embedded I Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:57:45 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5572 Further to Jim May's point: The Fallacy of False Division holds that all members of some group carry the traits of, and are representative of the <em>whole</em>, within a specified context. American soldiers fighting in WW2 were fighting for American values, but exactly which? Some fought for Individual Rights, which would be true "patriotism". Some were fighting for "America & The Flag", which is "nationalism". Some were fighting for "Democracy", which is a confusion of political values. In the American Revolution the northern colonies joined with the slave colonies in the south. The slave issue had to be secondary to American Independence, and would have to be resolved later. The Tea Parties must be viewed the same way. Objectivists hope to make gains towards individual rights (or at least curtail the statism of the Democrats). Tea Partiers, as a <em>whole</em>, help move matters in a better direction. Further to Jim May’s point:
The Fallacy of False Division holds that all members of some group carry the traits of, and are representative of the whole, within a specified context.

American soldiers fighting in WW2 were fighting for American values, but exactly which? Some fought for Individual Rights, which would be true “patriotism”. Some were fighting for “America & The Flag”, which is “nationalism”. Some were fighting for “Democracy”, which is a confusion of political values.

In the American Revolution the northern colonies joined with the slave colonies in the south. The slave issue had to be secondary to American Independence, and would have to be resolved later.

The Tea Parties must be viewed the same way. Objectivists hope to make gains towards individual rights (or at least curtail the statism of the Democrats). Tea Partiers, as a whole, help move matters in a better direction.

]]> By: Jim May http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5568 Jim May Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:23:58 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5568 I still hold by my view of the Tea Parties as a sharp outburst of the American sense of life -- but no more. Until I see people standing up for their right to say no to the outstretched hand of need, I expect it to fizzle out and die. I'll admit that I expected that to have happened by now -- that the mainstream right would have co-opted and deflated it by now. I'm happy to be wrong about the speed, but we have yet to see about the ultimate end. For me, the big positive is not that the Tea Parties themselves will achieve anything big, but that they function as a much, much better filter for identifying active-minded prospects for our ideas than anything I've ever seen. A person's stand on the Tea Parties is far more informative w/r/t active-mindedness than their positions on the other, much more arbitrary divides in our culture (most notoriously, that between the Left and conservatism). This can only work to our advantage. I still hold by my view of the Tea Parties as a sharp outburst of the American sense of life — but no more.

Until I see people standing up for their right to say no to the outstretched hand of need, I expect it to fizzle out and die.

I’ll admit that I expected that to have happened by now — that the mainstream right would have co-opted and deflated it by now. I’m happy to be wrong about the speed, but we have yet to see about the ultimate end.

For me, the big positive is not that the Tea Parties themselves will achieve anything big, but that they function as a much, much better filter for identifying active-minded prospects for our ideas than anything I’ve ever seen.

A person’s stand on the Tea Parties is far more informative w/r/t active-mindedness than their positions on the other, much more arbitrary divides in our culture (most notoriously, that between the Left and conservatism). This can only work to our advantage.

]]> By: Grant http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5567 Grant Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:40:40 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5567 Mike, Cooperation is not collectivism. Mike,

Cooperation is not collectivism.

]]> By: Mike http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5565 Mike Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:17:52 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5565 I've been wondering whether the ultimate effectiveness of the "Tea bag" movement is limited by the fact that it's a protest against collectivism that uses a collective tactic to deliver its message. On a further level, by definition no individualist would join a collectivist organization for the purpose of protesting collectivism! Or so it would seem. Maybe there's some angle to this I am not seeing, because the recursion is a bit off-putting. I WANT to imagine that this is a spontaneous outpouring of individualism, and I certainly don't buy the "astroturf" arguments. My concern is more that these individualists are failing to dance with the one that brung 'em. It's kind of like imagining a protest against the right to publicly demonstrate. Or a protest against free speech. Doesn't that, y'know, NOT WORK, by definition? Sam Kinison might have nailed it: "'Rock against drugs,' they said. 'Rock against drugs.' It's the dumbest f__king thing I ever heard. Rock CREATED drugs! Don't they understand this? 'Rock against drugs.' Might as well be 'Christians against Christ.'" I’ve been wondering whether the ultimate effectiveness of the “Tea bag” movement is limited by the fact that it’s a protest against collectivism that uses a collective tactic to deliver its message. On a further level, by definition no individualist would join a collectivist organization for the purpose of protesting collectivism! Or so it would seem. Maybe there’s some angle to this I am not seeing, because the recursion is a bit off-putting. I WANT to imagine that this is a spontaneous outpouring of individualism, and I certainly don’t buy the “astroturf” arguments. My concern is more that these individualists are failing to dance with the one that brung ‘em.

It’s kind of like imagining a protest against the right to publicly demonstrate. Or a protest against free speech. Doesn’t that, y’know, NOT WORK, by definition?

Sam Kinison might have nailed it:

“‘Rock against drugs,’ they said. ‘Rock against drugs.’ It’s the dumbest f__king thing I ever heard. Rock CREATED drugs! Don’t they understand this? ‘Rock against drugs.’ Might as well be ‘Christians against Christ.’”

]]> By: Kelly Koenig http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5560 Kelly Koenig Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:25:53 +0000 http://www.newclarion.com/2009/09/the-start-of-something-big/#comment-5560 I was there and it was incredible! History has been made! I was there and it was incredible! History has been made!

]]>